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How to exit a spiral dive
Nice Video from Larry Mednick on exiting a spiral dive:
Some intro from Larry -
I wanted to post this video again, because it is so important to understand spiral dive recovery. Very recently I was in the back seat with a pilot and they entered a steep turn and pushed out so far they stalled. As the stall started it became impossible to level the wings and the nose dropped and the spiral dive began. To my amazement, the pilot continued to try and level the wing while at the same time pushing forward. The result was a complete loss of control and a descent that may have ended badly had I not been in the back seat to simply pull the bar in and level the wings.
This isn't the first time I have been in the back seat with a pilot or student that losses control in a spiral dive and cannot seem to recover and panics.
Please know and understand this recovery. Fly Safe,
Larry Mednick
Comments
Jeezez Dude, you didn't tell me about that!!
Why didn't you tell me to pull in ... LOL ;)
?
Yeah, I hadn't heard that story happening to you. Then I was joking about it being me (i knew it wasn't) ;)
Didn't happen to me, found this video out there, figured it might be of interest
excellent video for demonstration and good info to have under your belt thanks ken but i often wonder as in the case of rob Lyons if there is not more difficulty added in recovery in different conditions. ive heard conflicting reports of down wind leg and gusting 15 thru 25 in robs crash. Larry video seems pretty calm air. anyone have experience in spiral dive recovery in say rowdy gusting dense air ?????????
Rowdy air might be a bit more challenging in general, but exit ("recovery") from a spiral dive (slip) is about the same I think-- most turbulence is random, ie not a concerted and continuous force on one wing only for very long. The part about the downwind leg is just the visual perception of speed makes pilots more prone to push out to slow down their ground speed-- just like ridge soaring when you are flying back to the ridge and turning, there is a strong urge to push out as you rush the hill-- but DON'T do that (much if at all- in fact, here again, pulling in often helps the glider initiate it's turn, then push out to coordinate normally)-- Feel the glider, feel the bar pressure feedback, where trim is etc. Don't fly by ground speed.
Recovery in rowdy air (significant gust intensity) could be delayed some what depending on orientation of trike in spiral when gust hits. Of course, any delay in recovery at low altitude could be real bad news. I don't think I ever saw the final NTSB report on the Rob Lyons incident but when it was discussed over on TPS some "in the know" claim he was in students trike and did not take time to put instructor control bar extensions on. Potentially student froze or for what ever reason took wrong corrective action which exacerbated situation with insufficient altitude. Hey after a rather frightening incident myself I try to stay away from accelerated spiral dives. Ken, great to share this video again.
I see it was a good video, I wish there were more texts (captioning) on this so I can read.
Hi Sally. What was happening was a demonstration of the fact that a trike often turns / responds better if pulled in first. Sometimes this is called a "J-Turn" because the motion your hands make would mimic a "J" (starting from the lower left of the "J"- your hands would make a short pull in, then a lateral bar movement, then push out to coordinate the new turn). The J-turn is especially effective when the trike is slipping or diving in a turn (spiral dive). For example, if in a left turning dive, you try and pull the right wing down directly (lateral movement without pulling in first) it is often less effective, and sometimes completely ineffective-- making exiting the diving turn difficult or impossible. However, if you pull in first, the trike usually responds quickly to the new roll (out) input. Pushing out first, in an attempt to limit the speed of the turn (or something) increases the rate of turn and/or approaches stall.
Larry's video shows that.
Rob's accident and others that this may have played a part in are discussed in detail in CSI
Slips and diving turns can be a useful tool and are generally low stress (~1G) on the wing. Before doing this, it would be a good idea to be competent in exiting the diving turn as well. See your instructor.
hi ken, perhaps we could get larry to explain the j maneuvre,
why, how, and when to use it ? monty
Larry isn't on alltrikes, he lives only on the dark side. I think XC triker is an expert at the J though. Got some words XC?
as usual i opened wide and ate my foot! i failed to read xc's excellent 'j' turn comment. (i'm getting to like the taste of humble pie!) i would like a video of it though.