Happy TrikerAirborn XT Outback, Air Creation Tanarg, Evolution Aircraft Revo
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Escape from Serious Spiral Dive in Real Life
By Happy Triker
Categories: Trike Talk, Tech, Training / Learning to Fly a Trike, Safety
Comments (38)This is the educational video with regard to the incident we had few months ago. Larry Mednick, Paul Hamilton, Wes Frey, Ken interviews are included for examining what really happened during the incident. I believe it will benefit all pilots flying trike.
Comments
Sorry for my poor english in my interview part. :(
- 1 like
- TrikeBoyWonder@TrikeBoyWonder
LeoTrikeBoyWonder liked this
Nonsense Henry, your english is just fine my friend. :)
Amazing video! I thank all of you guys for sharing this. When I saw this on your cell phone I was just in aww of what a close call this was! As a very new pilot, I look to all of you for experience and advice. This video is priceless and all Pilots regardless of experienced level should take the time to pass this on to fellow pilots. Most of all, I'm really glad you and Ken survived it. Thank you for sharing! :)
What is the video format? All I can see is blank white space where the video should be.
Art
Firstly I am glad that you are both OK. There is only one thing you have not considered, and that is the coastal lift band. I am sure that it had something to do with the spiral. I have seen this before.
- 1 like
- TrikeBoyWonder@TrikeBoyWonder
Wile E ScottTrikeBoyWonder liked this
Many, many thanks Henry and Ken. I fly with about the same simplicity as Henry called out but for training and only flying solo, I do spiral recovery, simulated engine out landings and stalls to keep the skills sharp. Times like this prove you never know when you're going to need to call on them. Watching the speed at which that right wing stall happened was a real eye catcher. I was also very impressed with the speed at which the trike leveled out after the bar was pulled in. Amazing stuff guys, thank you very much.
YFT, can you please discribe the coastal lift band? I've never heard of it.
- 1 like
- TrikeBoyWonder@TrikeBoyWonder
jeff trikeTrikeBoyWonder liked this
Whenever you turn, you need to be prepared to lose altitude.
All the pilot handbooks show how you will pull 2 G's in a steady 60 degree banked turn. It is possible to maintain altitude by increasing power, angle of attack, and lift. But this is not the situation here. When you are flying level, you are generating just enough lift to maintain altitude. As soon as you bank, the vertical component of the lift drops away and that will cause you to start falling.
Every time you turn, expect to drop. That is why low altitude turns (which I see all the time in the pattern) are so dangerous. Any slight mis-judgement or drop in power and you will plument. You are not in a stall at first, although it often ends up getting there later when the bar is pushed out in a final attempt to genearate some force in vertical direction. But if you are banked over, the force is in the wrong direction (not straight up) and it won't be enough.
Great video, thanks for sharing. I am sure it will save some lives.
Thanks Henry, we can all learn from this real life lesson! And doing the right moves under pressure, you are DA MAN! Very happy all is well!!!
Excellent educational video Henry. Spiral dive recovery is an extremely important maneuver to learn especially since it is not totally intuitive. You demonstrated the recovery technique appropriate for your trike and wing and you did it in the nick of time. Not sure if you have the interest or plans to pursue but I think you would make a great cfi. I am sure you have accumulated significant flying hours but perhaps more importantly you seem to have the right demeanor and temperament. At least that is my impression after a brief time meeting you at Polson last year. Any way thanks for sharing yet another excellent video.
Hi Wile E Scott, The coastal lift band is basically the same as a mountain lift band. Hang Gliders find out about it all the time. You can see Henry's right wing beginning to flutter just before it drops. this may be the air moving down from the top of the ridge near the flight path of Henry's Trike. I don't see the issue with the recovery, I am more interested in stopping it happen in the first place.
- 1 like
- TrikeBoyWonder@TrikeBoyWonder
Noel CTrikeBoyWonder liked this
To Henry, Ken
I would also pass on how pleased I am that you both are none the worse for wear after this event. And like others very appreciative that along with Larry and Paul you put this video up as a learning tool.
I have 2 lessons reinforced from this event.
1. The importance of knowing how to recover from steep turns.
2. The even greater importance of what Jeff touched on and my instructor constantly emphasised, in avoiding steep turns at low altitude.
Henry, Im glad you both are OK. Yes, its important video from us to learn on other guys mistake :)
You must have enough of altitude and enough of speed. If you havent enough altitude, you must have more than enough of speed.
About your English?!? :))) You can ask to YFT about mine.... :)))
- 2 likes
- Jozinko@Sajan
- TrikeBoyWonder@TrikeBoyWonder
Wile E ScottJozinko liked this
TrikeBoyWonder liked this
YFT, AH! I see. The cliffs in the background setup the wave effect? One would think that is magnified when the beach temps are warmer than the land temps. Air current is dragged off the cliffs as the beach air rises, starting the wave. Thank you for the education. Never thought of those being there.
- 1 like
- Jozinko@Sajan
KenJozinko liked this
Just for the record, I'm not that Ken :)
Thanks for the Video Henry!
- 1 like
- TrikeBoyWonder@TrikeBoyWonder
white eagleTrikeBoyWonder liked this
henry my friend humbling exsperiece but i must say just great how you put this up and the manner in which you did it. i see a cobination of events leading up to this one heavy wing loading to low agl its very easy to get distracted looking at things like dolphins. it looks more like a slip stall to me. but you did do all the right things quickly. the lift band may have also been a factor as well as the pushing out in the steep turn. i know you and if you were pic you wouldnt have made such a steep turn that cought you off guard. not pitting ken down at all i think this would be a more common mistake with a ga pilot.hang glider pilots are more inclinde to turn away from the cliffs for one . that cliff is very verticle and abrupt edge and near the beach. the water is cooler and the air band is verticle it is very possible that this could have contributed. sink on the outside of the lift band where the water meets the sand and defined up as the sand reflects heet and vertical band of the cliff. hang gliders have very light wing loading so they can handle it better. i hope i can do as well as you did when i make a mistake as we all can. but i have to applad the way you did this video and larrys video on spiral dives and pauls video as well. i too watch all those videos to increase my knowlege if i screw up.we should have this engrained by the time were out of solo but somehow it dosnt stick as well as it should. i have a rule for myself after seeing many fatalitys in hang gliding altitude is your friend airspeed is your friend the best way to avoid this is dont make steep turns below 400 ft agl. thanks paul hamilton. larry mednick henry imagwa this is what are mentors should be doing
First, I want to express my appreciation for Henry, Ken (not the Ken here ;) and all involved in making the video. You're incredibly generous. Reviewing this could save some more lives.
I second everything white eagle just said - my thoughts exactly on the contributing factors. I've also got the hang gliding reflexes. Whenever a GA pilot friend gives me a ride in one airplane or another I inevitably have reason to think, "this pilot really trusts his engine."
Insofar as ridge lift contributing - I kind of doubt it since Henry mentions in the video that winds were light. I can see situations where it could though.
There's a good chance I'll be flying tomorrow morning and with it, an even better one I'll be practicing stall recovery in a turn...at altitude. Again, kudos and huge relief that this turned out well.
I have looked at the video again and studied terrain and timing of events. I have a hypothesis. Henry indicated winds were light at the time. Although the cliff face was relatively close to beach, unless light wind was blowing over the cliff which could have caused some mild rotor, my guess is that lift was being generated on beach sand up to and against the cliff face. As this was convecting upward, quite likely the colder denser air above the water was sinking and flowing near surface toward the cliff due to pressure differential. I do agree with Heather that ridge lift was likely not a factor, however even light wind blowing from the ocean could have combined with thermal lift from heated rock and sand on the beach. So I see that it is entirely possible that the steep R-hand turn in that location could have placed the L wing in lift and R wing in sink which forced a steeper bank than planned. Also there was a bit of trailing edge flutter on R wing indicated that R side stalled rather quickly again consistent with that wing potentially in sink. It is important to remember that the boundaries between lifting and sinking air can be rather sharp so one wing in lift and one wing in sink can change your flying attitude (induced roll) rather quickly and this can be exacerbated or accelerated with heavy wing loading as W.E. pointed out. I am very thankful that Henry and Ken (not our esteemed Ken here) made it through this scary event and that Henry wanted to share this experience for the benefit of others.
One other risk related to tight spiral dives that I have shared on other forums I think is worth repeating here. Yes, it is a worth while experience to practice relatively steep spiral turns with plenty of altitude and how to recover from them. Several years ago I did one in my light soaring trike (NW ATF) and things did not go quite as I had planned. I started at with at least 1000' AGL (maybe a bit more) and wanted to loose some altitude rather quickly to enter the pattern and land. My spiral descent was a bit more aggressive than others I had practiced. Pulling a few more Gs than normal I blacked out. Although conscious, I was clearly incapacitated for a brief period of time. My guess is that I was out for no more than 2 to 3 seconds but that was too much and an experience that scared the **** out of me. I should have known better. I have low blood pressure and experiencing that G load momentarily starved my brain of blood. Key point is that not every pilot can handle the same amount of Gs. Some like acrobatic pilots can handle way more G loads than others. Needless to say blacking out in a steep spiral is a recipe for disaster. Thankfully this experience did not result in an accident but it taught me a valuable lesson. I have no intention of ever practicing steep aggressive spiral dives again simply because I know my body may not be able to handle the increasing G load. I do not believe that I am unique in being a trike pilot with low blood pressure so please be aware of this additional risk with such a maneuver. Oh, I also learned a valuable lesson when I shared this story with my wife. I received a lecture that I suppose I deserved. I assured her that I had no intention of repeating that experience.
well said joe i think you said what i ment to convey not nessisarily the lifft band itself but the convection between the hot sand and the cooler water.. thermals as well at low agl can do the same thing in high bank low agl situation. i remember a incident hang gliding a small hill in nm about 1980. it was a hot day and i liked to practice landing. there. forget about trying for lift at low agl.i learned that it was good to keep xtra energy setting up for landing..two pilots started critisizing me for flying fast.i told them no you guys are flying to slow making turns off such a small hill. they argued with me exstesively. the following weekend one of those same pilots got in the down cycle of a breaking thermal and spiraled into the ground. he spent the next two months in a coma. lived but never flew again.
It is now understood that the accident recently in Noosa into water was caused by an unintentional entry into a very tight spiral dive, and the pilot not knowing how or incapacited to be able to exit the manuever.
Be careful out there, thats 2 similar incidents within a couple of weeks of each other.
So glad you guys are still with us Henry! Thanks for the heads up warning video too.
Hey Crayonbox, how's that pilot doing? Is he recovering?
leo i talked with yft and the outcome is not good
Oh man, that's not good. Thank you for the update WE, I will keep him and his family in my prayers.
Fly safe peeps.
One think I noted in earlier versions of this video that I don't hear any more is that the engine sounded like it powered down when he made the turn, rather than powered up. Maybe just my imagination, and not what Ken says during the interview, but may have contributed....
dammit ken! yer gotta change yer name! or you'll be forever 'splaining' you ain't that ken, what if the next ken gets 'done' for leading a 'panty' raid, or having voted for our present pres.! how about using the 'nom de plume' of 'this ken, not that ken'! thank god theres no other monty out there to embarrass this one! although i'm well able to achieve this myself! hugs monty (to this ken not that ken).