Call to Action. Adding Spiral recovery Tasks to the Practical Test Standards (PTS).
Intentional or unintentional spiral dives have caused a number of fatalities throughout the world. Therefore, I have decided to pursue getting spiral dive recovery into the Practical Test Standards (PTS) so all new pilots and CFI's will start training for this important maneuver in the US and hopefully worldwide. Additionally, this will also emphasize the importance of this important safety concept for pilots and instructors while performing a flight review required for all pilots ever 24 months in the USA. If we are successful with this, we can make spiral training visible and available to all pilots in the US within 24 to 30 months.
I have contacted the FAA and discussed this addition to the PTS so here is my plan based on this conversation. It is more than likely we can achieve this so I am asking others for input to this important evolution in trike safety. All input is appreciated.
There are two specific topics that need to be achieved to accomplish this:.
1. Justification for addition to PTS
2. What specifically to test for in the PTS which will be the basis of training for spiral dive recovery.
Before we get to the specifics, let's look at the closest item in the PTS that would relate to this subject.
The PTS is located at www.faa.gov/ training_testing/ testing/ test_standards/ media/ FAA-S-8081-31.pdf or you can purchase a paper copy at http://www.pilot-stores.com/asa-practical-test-standards-sport-pilot/
In the PTS Power Off Stall Task, the turning stall task is made to simulate the base to final turn and specifies a maximum 20 degree banked stall to represent this base to final scenario with no more than a +/- 10 degree variation. Hopefully this maneuver is thought by instructors to cover this base to final stall/spiral avoidance as a starting point to avoid this situation altogether in the first place. Typically the inside wing falls and the recovery is the same as a spiral recovery - reduce angle of attack (AOA) while leveling the wing, EXCEPT, repeat EXCEPT, you add throttle to recover at a slow speed and bank angle below 45 degrees RATHER than let off the throttle to recover in a spiral dive when the nose is pointed down. Significantly different recovery methods based on the bank angle.
Back to the JUSTICICATION before we get to the specifics of the spiral recovery maneuver. I can easily write a paragraph describing the problem but specific instances involving pilots in accidents is important to make this happen. I will put this into another blog/article to keep it separate and on track since this may create some discussion on this topic. Here we will focus on the specifics of the PTS task here.
Where should this be in the PTS as a task? Well it can be either in the Slow Flight and Stalls Area after the whip stall and tumble awareness OR in the Emergency Operations Area. The Slow Flight and Stalls Area is similar to the tuck tumble task for WSC/trikes and similar to the Spin Awareness for the Airplane Task which is in the slow flight and stalls for airplane. The Emergency procedures is appropriate since it is an Emergency recovery procedure. Ideas and input as to where the appropriate place in the PTS are appreciated from CFI's and DPE's.
The problem is how I teach this is not easily replicated for student to practice nor testing during a checkride. I now teach this with a two step process:
1. Get into a very high 60 degree bank and recover from there. Nose falls and the recovery procedure is initiated by simultaneously decreasing angle of attack, level wings and reduce throttle. Additionally at a very high bank angle, push out to demonstrate the stall and how this will initiate a spiral as the wing drops and things get worse. Again, the recovery procedure is initiated by simultaneously decreasing angle of attack, level wings and reduce throttle.
2. Get into a steep bank angle (example 45 degree bank performance maneuver) and bumping the bar to a higher bank angle as if there was some event that put the student into a very high bank angle (example 60 degrees) unable to maintain altitude at full throttle. Nose falls and the recovery procedure is initiated by simultaneously decreasing angle of attack, leveling wings and reducing throttle.
There may be a difference of opinion of exactly the sequence among flight instructors, but I teach a simultaneous pitch/roll/throttle where a sequence 1,2,3 can also be utilized for specific wing/trike situations. The PTS tasks needs to be open enough to accomplish either method depending on the specific trike/wing.
So how do we provide a recovery technique to initiate and recognize a spiral that can be thought by CFI's and practiced by the student on their own.
Here is my first cut at this in the PTS to accomplish this task. The objective is to obtain input before I submit this to the FAA to have it incorporated into the PTS. Here is a first cut at the two tasks as a starting point:
TASK: POWER ON SPIRAL RECOVERY (WSCL and WSCS)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-5; Aircraft Flight Manual(AFM)/POH/AOI, .
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power on spiral recovery.
2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no lower than 1,000 feet AGL (Typically this would be at least 2000 AGL).
3. Establishes a high banked minimum 45 degree turn maintaining altitude at 1.6 Vs as specified by the examiner. Applicant simulates unintentional spiral by bumping to higher bank angle not to exceed 60 degrees and nose down attitude 30 degrees. Transitions smoothly and immediately from nose down high banked turn to level flight with 0 to 30 degrees bank angle.
4. Minimizes altitude loss, with no high pitch angle recovery, with immediate correction to new heading with no more than 180°correction in direction from simulated spiral initiated heading.
5. Recognizes and recovers promptly after the spiral is initiated by reducing the angle of attack , leveling the wing and reducing throttle to return to a straight-and-level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate for the specific weight-shift control aircraft.
6. Returns to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the examiner.
Y. TASK: POWER OFF SPIRAL DIVE (WSCL and WSCS)
REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-5; Aircraft Flight Manual(AFM)/POH/AOI, .
Objective. To determine that the applicant:
1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to power off spiral recovery.
2. Selects an entry altitude that allows the task to be completed no lower than 1,000 feet AGL.
3. Reduces throttle and establishes a high banked minimum 45 degree descending turn at 1.6 Vs as specified by the examiner. Applicant simulates unintentional spiral by bumping to higher bank angle not to exceed 60 degrees and nose down attitude 30 degrees. Transitions smoothly and immediately from nose down high banked turn to level flight with 0 to 30 degrees bank angle.
4. Minimizes altitude loss , with immediate correction to new heading with no more than 180°correction in direction from simulated spiral heading.
5. Recognizes and recovers promptly after the unintentional spiral is initiated by simultaneously reducing the angle of attack, leveling the wing and increasing throttle as appropriate to return to a straight-and-level flight attitude with a minimum loss of altitude appropriate for the weight shift control aircraft.
6. Returns to the altitude, heading, and airspeed specified by the examiner.
Comments
Jozinko, Sounds like you are ahead of us on this. Any specific standards such as bank angles, pitch angles, airspeeds, headings for spiral recovery you are aware of? Appreciate your input.
Sounds like a GREAT idea TrikeCFI. I'm no CFI, but the standards here look reasonable to me. What is the process like to have this included?
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- Leo@LeoIezzi
TrikeCFILeo liked this
The FAA is waiting on me to submit my recomendation. something like this a always want to run buy the community for any other perspectives. Once i submit it to the FAA ir will generally be out of my control. It would be helpful if we could point to any specific instances to help justify it. This would help.
Seems like there have been a number of instances in the last couple of years that could have been due to spiral dive. Should be sufficient to demonstrate a need.
My 2 cents Paul, but I would change the minimums for this maneuver to 1500 agl.
You're right that it should be done at 2000, but if you state 1000, and someone decided to do it at 1200, their within the PTS. It's too close to the BRS minimums if someone gets themselves in trouble.
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- Leo@LeoIezzi
TrikeCFILeo liked this
Leo,
Great observation. This is the only maneuver where will by any significant altitude loss besides landings and emergency landings. However, if someone tries to perform the maneuver STARTING at 1200 AGL they would NOT be within the PTS because they would descend below the minimum AGL of 1000 feet and fail the task. Not good for anyone.
Same as the other maneuvers (stalls, MCA and performance turns), the minimum altitude that the maneuver needs to be performed and most importantly, COMPLETED is 1000 feet AGL and I recommend (which is in the Sport Pilot Checkride book) they start the maneuver at 1500 AGL to make sure not to go below the 1000 AGL for a 500 foot significant tolerance/margin of safety.
However, since this is a unique "altitude loss maneuver", perhaps a minimum altitude of 1500 is appropriate. This means I would recommend starting at at 2500 AGL for 1000 foot tolerance/margin of safety.
Good point which will be considered.
Sorry Paul, I don't express myself very well when I type.....my mind goes 1000 miles and hour and my hand do not when I type. What I meant was pulling out of the Spiral maneuver at 1200 would be within the PTS, but too close to the BRS minimums.
In any case, I think what you're doing is fantastic for our sport. This should most definitely be a requirement. Great job Paul, thank you so much for spearheading this endeavor. It is greatly appreciated! :)
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- Leo@LeoIezzi
TrikeCFILeo liked this
Leo,
The best way to learn is to ask, comment and have questions/opinions.
To All,
I do not personally feel we should be doing maneuvers that would create a situation where a BRS was needed. Far from it.
The standards I have written are within the manufacturers limitations. Yes, as history has shown, if the wrong procedure is used, a BRS would be required but that is the purpose of training and the objective of this effort.
Paul, I think it is a good idea for students to be trained in spiral dive recovery, but I do have one concern. Many people don't solo in the same trike/wing they trained on. In my limited experience and observations, different wings are variable in the ease they enter a spiral dive. Things could go badly if, for example, a student practices spiral dives on a twitchy wing having experience only with a relatively stable one. Perhaps the instructor should give a specific sign-off to practice spiral dives after the student has xx hours on or demonstrates familiarity with the new craft?
Paul, like Leo wrote "what you're doing is fantastic for our sport". Sorry I think we arent ahead of you, because we ahvent any rules for spiral dive recover. Our rules include only: sharp turns, falls - 3 flights/40mins
I personally do it at 3 steps:
1 - to reach min or stall speed by straight flight direction: push out the bar and student must feel the moment, when the wing told him - attention, you are very close the stall speed - soft control bar. Then he have to pull the bar, nose down, increase speed and return to straight flight level. We repeated it 3-4 times.
2 - in a 30-40° bank. We do it like 1st step, but to the side.
3 - we do it at 45°or little more bank with quick push out the bar. We stop immediately and fall to the side. This is real fall to the side! Recovery: pull the bar immediately, centralise the flight down, full throttle, slowly return to normal flight level.
Every exercise we do 3-4 times.
But before the practical exercise we train it on the ground.
Unfortunately Ive never done it at TL wing. Here are mostly classical wings.
Ken,
Yes there have been many instances but it would be nice to get some help to provide specific links to any possible spiral accident whether news, eye witness or accident report. I have my hands full dealing with this and it would be great to get some help with the specific instances to justify this big step in triking safety. All specific instances by any one would be appreciated.
Heather,
Yes this is a problem for sure same as airplane stalls. I train stalls someone in a Sling that stalls very nicely, barely drops a wing, Easy stall recovery. Then they go somewhere and fly something that has a nasty stall with an incipient spin, same problem as you mention above. In big airplanes they are type certified to accomplish this. For trikes, we have is the above 87 knots and below. To add a regulation that would require a log book endorsement is probably not going to happen. We will be lucky to accomplish adding spiral recovery to the PTS. The type certified for trikes (make/model/SET) ended a while ago because it became difficult to divide up exactly what a twitchy verses gentle wing. There was a huge gray area. It was problematic and I am glad it is gone. I personally am not going to open that can of worms and complexity here. I think for spiral recovery it is just like the stalls for airplanes. It is not perfect but we will have to leave it to common sense of pilots and CFI's unless any one has a simple way to accomplish this?
Jozinko,
I should have said that you are teaching more advanced techniques than most trike flight instructors.
In addition to the stabilized spiral, as you do, I also teach the high banked stall but this is even more controversial here so I am not including that is this effort. Our standards call for a 20 degree banked turn stall so I feel this is acceptable for check ride standards and general training.
Generally I train spiral recovery and steep turn stall recovery until the student/pilot recognizes and corrects which may take a while.
The TopLess wing spiral recovery is about the same as the wired wing only the acceleration is generally a little faster and higher speeds can be obtained quicker but no difference in the general recovery techniques.
Had decided to refrain from commenting but now feel compelled to share my concerns with including this in PTS. While I think it is important for trike pilots to understand spiral dive recovery I do not think it is a good idea to include in PTS. Concerns are along the lines of what Heather pointed out. Pilots switching trikes and wings will believe it is important to practice these prior to their test. Not all pilots will believe it is imperative for them to get spiral training with a CFI prior to such practice. I am sure different trike/wing combinations can behave quite differently when entering and exiting such extreme maneuvers. Since we are talking about maneuvers at the ragged edge of manufacturers limitations (eg 60deg bank and 30deg pitch) it is very easy to exceed these especially when we talk about "bumping" the bar. Yes if you bump the bar too long you can easily exceed above limitation and it is quite easily with some trike/wing, wing loading combinations to exceed Vne. So a requirement for such a maneuver stresses the equipment and the pilot. Heather rightly points out that different wings are variable in the ease they enter a spiral dive but I also believe behavior and ease of exiting one is also variable. Not all pilots will recognize all the variables that can make this practice very risky. Some of those variables are weather related. First time practicing this in a relatively new trike/wing combo in other than calm conditions can tip the scales beyond the risk the pilot was expecting. I have said this before and will say it again. Not all pilots can take the Gs that build up rather quickly. Yes it is possible to black out. Been there done that and almost bought the farm. Fortunately for me in the instance where I did black out it only lasted for a few seconds and I still had enough altitude when I came to for recovery. Although I have no hard data to back this up, I do suspect that a few of the recent spiral fatalities may have been due to pilots intentionally entering such an extreme to practice recovery and they quickly realized they were in an unfamiliar situation beyond their skill level. When you run out of altitude and experience at the same time basically plummeting at or in excess of Vne things can get very ugly very quickly. my 3 cents FWIIW. ULt
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- Ken@knussear
JozinkoKen liked this
Yea ULTP, you and Heather have right. But better than training spiral recovery is to know when is the dangerous point, when trike/wing can fall to spiral. This point must every student to know. Because we all saw Henry Trike life video and I was surprised, the pilot didnt know what the wing told him...
Every trike/wing is different. If student fly at training trike and he bought new trike, he have to fly with his instructor to this new trike and to his logbook must be note, he was trained to this trike. Instructor is able to tell him, what is different between school trike and his new trike.
But the most mistakes what do pilots into unwanted spirall is, they push the bar out. Why? because the trike is falling to relative high speed down and they do fatal mistakes - they still push the bar. They are feeling this high speed, but this is FALL SPEED, not flying speed. Maybe if he have enough of high altitude and more powered engine at full throttle, it can recover it. But for them is unthinkable, their have to increase their FLYING speed and pull the bar. This is the main mistake! And this the reason, why every one pilot/student/instructor have to do it. And it doesnt matter how sort of plane it is...
To get everyone up to speed, if you care, here are some actual training resources for spiral dive and spiral dive recovery.
The most important remedy is to get actual spiral dive/avoidance/recovery dual training from a qualified instructor. This can most easily be combined with a flight review or a training session with a trike CFI.
Additionally there are many ground training resources that each and every pilot and instructor can utilize to move pilots from the proper or improper rote actions to the correlation levels of learning.
These are listed below:
Henry Trikelife video with editing where spiral recovery training saved two lives:
Henry Trikelife raw flying footage of above video:
Spiral Recovery Ground School for Trikes Paul Hamilton raw ground footage of above video:
Exit a Spiral Dive by Larry Mednick video:
Spiral Dive in A.C. by Larry Mednick Video:
Ground school paper book where Spiral Dive science/principles is discussed in detail chapter 5 Advanced Flight Maneuvers:
http://www.pilot-stores.com/weight-shift-control-aircraft-pilots-handbook-of-aeronautical-knowledge/
Ground school downloadable eBook where Spiral Dive science/principles is discussed in detail chapter 5 Advanced Flight Maneuvers:
http://www.pilot-stores.com/weight-shift-control-aircraft-pilots-handbook-of-aeronautical-knowledge-ebook/
Trike Training Syllabus where Spiral Recovery is part of a comprehensive training program:
http://www.pilot-stores.com/sport-and-private-pilot-training-syllabus-trike/
Steep Turns and Spirals for Trikes where steep turn turbulence resulted in spiral with immediate corrective action
http://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=YrxsfescO0g
Feel free to provide any additional training resources on this subject for trike pilots.
Thanks everybody for your concerns and opinions. I am listening and hope to summarize and wrap this up pretty soon.
What I really need is any suggestions on the actual PTS tasks as originally proposed in the top of this blog and any specific links to instances where spiral dives killed people or where training helped. Would greatly appreciate suggestions/help in these two areas.
Right now I have this as a start thanks to Abid:
please help add to this:
Here is your start:
1) http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20050302X00250&key=1 (Feb 7, 2005, Air Creation Clipper 912, wake turbulence encounter from coast guard heli and then developing spiral into the ground without structural failure, 2 died). I knew the student and his wife. Trained the student for 3 hours before he went back to NJ for further training and bought this Clipper
2) http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20051026X01727&key=1 (Sept 24, 2005, Air Creation Clipper 912, spiralled (no it did not spin, witnesses can't tell the difference) into the ground in NJ again).
3) http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20061006X01480&ntsbno=NYC06LA227&akey=1
(Air Trikes Tourist, Sept 20, 2006, tight spiral into the ground from steep bank turns at low altitude)
4) http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20070904X01305&ntsbno=DEN07LA145&akey=1
(August 25, 2007, 300 foot flight into a Canyon, inadvertent stall/spin = spiral after stall - spiral being secondary)
5) Possible (no witnesses but no pre-impact structural damage evidence) http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20080208X00159&ntsbno=LAX08LA050&akey=1
6) http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20080910X01424&ntsbno=LAX08LA290&akey=1
( Sept 6, 2008 -- Airborne stall turn to left and spiral 200 feet into the ground, spiral being secondary here)
More to find I'll leave those up to you guys to work to find. There are plenty out there in NTSB as well as around the world. Loss of control with no pre-impact structural damage or control circuit on wing is almost always a spiral developing that was not controlled or recognized from a turning stall.
ASTB advice from accidents in 1994
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24713/ASOR199502099.pdf
A revised HGFA Weightshift Microlight Flying Instructor's Manual was issued. This included the following:
"Spiral Dive Tendency
Demonstrate the tendency for the aircraft to begin to "spiral" when excessive pitch pressure is applied with a nose down attitude in a steep turn. Demonstrate that the aircraft will recover from the spiral due to its pitch and roll stability, though height loss can be substantial if excessive pitch pressure is held until the aircraft stalls. Demonstrate that reducing pitch pressure and levelling the wings will reduce height loss.
"Demonstrate that though the aircraft's tendency to diverge in roll is slow, it will increase if the aircraft is held in this spiral mode. Demonstrate that the aircraft can be readily rolled level by easing pitch pressure and applying weightshift.
"Ensure that the student is able to recognise the onset of the spiral tendency and is familiar with the recovery techniques".
Here are a few more
A)
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20140703X04646&key=1&queryId=98cbb185-74b9-4803-876d-9c742d965d3d&pgno=1&pgsize=200
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 02, 2014 in Omro, WI
Aircraft: NORTHWING DESIGN APACHE SPORT, registration: N2725T
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
On July 2, 2014, at 1900 central daylight time, N2725T, a weight-shift-control Northwing Design Apache Sport aircraft, experienced a loss of control and collided with the terrain in Omro, Wisconsin. The student pilot was fatally injured and the aircraft was substantially damaged. The aircraft was registered to the pilot and was operated as a 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan was filed. The flight originated from Wilke Field, a private airstrip, in Omro, Wisconsin.
A witness reported seeing the aircraft in a descending spiral prior to it impacting the terrain.
B)
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20121110X12436&key=1&queryId=98cbb185-74b9-4803-876d-9c742d965d3d&pgno=1&pgsize=200
NTSB Identification: WPR13FA036
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, November 08, 2012 in Waterville, WA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 05/08/2014
Aircraft: NORTH WING SCOUT X-C, registration: N467XW
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
During the flight, the student pilot was seated in the forward seat of the light sport airplane, and a pilot-rated passenger was seated in the aft seat, which was not equipped with flight controls. The student pilot was maneuvering the airplane over open terrain about 300 to 400 feet above the ground. A witness reported seeing the airplane turn left and then spin. The airplane continued spinning until it impacted terrain. Examination of the recovered airframe, engine, and flight control system components revealed no evidence of preimpact mechanical malfunctions or failures that would have precluded normal operation. It is likely that the student pilot inadvertently entered a stall and subsequent spin while maneuvering from which he was unable to recover. The Pilot’s Operating Handbook for the airplane stated that “deliberate spins and severe spiral turns are prohibited.”
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's failure to maintain control of the airplane while maneuvering at a low altitude, which resulted in a stall and subsequent spin from which he was unable to recover.
C)
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20100823X81939&key=1&queryId=98cbb185-74b9-4803-876d-9c742d965d3d&pgno=1&pgsize=200
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Saturday, August 21, 2010 in Amherst, VA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 12/13/2011
Aircraft: North Wing Scout X-C, registration: N417JN
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
NTSB investigators either traveled in support of this investigation or conducted a significant amount of investigative work without any travel, and used data obtained from various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
A witness observed the weight-shift aircraft approach her location and descend toward a nearby pasture. Shortly thereafter, the engine "revved up" and the aircraft pitched up at a steep angle. The aircraft began to make a tight spiral turn and continued until the nose pitched down, consistent with entering a stall/spin, before impacting the ground and erupting into flames. A postaccident examination of the wreckage did not reveal any mechanical anomalies with the airframe or engine. The aircraft was equipped with dual flight controls, and a throttle control was located on the foot rest for the aft passenger. The pilot was seated in the front seat and the passenger was seated in the aft seat. The passenger had access to the throttle control located near his foot rest, in addition to the flight controls, and it is possible he manipulated the throttle inadvertently although the investigation was unable to definitively determine if this occurred.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's loss of aircraft control for an undetermined reason.
D)
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20090626X00349&key=1&queryId=98cbb185-74b9-4803-876d-9c742d965d3d&pgno=1&pgsize=200
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Thursday, June 25, 2009 in Cedar Town, GA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 04/22/2010
Aircraft: P&M Aviation LTD Quikr, registration: N433PM
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.
Witnesses observed the weight-shift aircraft in a spin before it collided with trees, and reported that during the uncontrolled descent, engine noise was smooth and continuous. Examination of the airframe and power plant revealed no evidence of preimpact mechanical malfunction. Weather recorded about the time of the accident, approximately 16 miles northeast of the accident site, indicated conditions were conducive for visual flight rules operation with winds from 210 degrees at 6 knots. The pilot's logbook was not located during the course of the investigation; however, examination of Federal Aviation Administration records indicated the pilot had approximately 300 hours of total flight experience, but the pilot's experience in weight-shift aircraft could not be established.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
A loss of aircraft control for an undetermined reason.
Thanks Ken. Understanding the problem is the first step to solving. Greatly appreciated. Big help to all.
Well trike cfi for all its worth here is my 2 cents.first this is only how I see it and i am not trying to be confrontational.so I hope you will return my comment trike cfi. I don't think that adding spiral dive maneuvers to the flight test. I truly think the focus should be prevention of the spiral dive and staying within the placard limits of your wing and trike with focus on altitude and airspeed.spiral dive is an aerobatical manuver meant for thous that have some mastery of the basics. Surely a good verbal explanation and recovery or demonstration by a cfi would be good with a warning not to practice it solo. Other wise students would have to practice this manuver before the flight exam and could possibly have an adverse effect. I am also a little perplexed as to why the focus on spiral dive recovery is being more directed at the student pilot when as it looks to me that the statistics suggest that rather than the student it is intermediate and advanced flyers that are the vast majority of the fatalitys.pilots up to the practical test are more inclined to follow rules as there licence depends on it. But really isint that a lot of pilots deviate from the rules after that that leads to more fatalitys. Looking through the statistics it appears to me to be a certain combination of negligence that has taken place in many fatalitys prior to the spiral dive.I may point out that most of these are not new students.In old hang gliding terms I see itermidiate and advanced pilot syndrome more to cause here. Don't get me wrong here I am not saying that pilots should not learn spiral dive recovery tech. Larry's video is one I praised. I am saying expecting students to perform aerobatical maneuvers should be well thought out.If we. And I've said this all along want to rein in the number of fatalitys in triking. Than we are going to have to do a self evaluation and incorporate some disapline just exactly what hang gliding had to do in the late 80s.below 1000 agl airspeed airspeed. Pay attention. Now I got that let me pay my poor instructor to practice getting out of spiral dives at 2000 agl with a parachute on board.
White eagle I hear your opinion. This is what I see as a full range of opinions. You are in the middle some where. I am listening.
With the Call to Action to incorporate spiral recovery to the PTS I have heard a full range of opinions. Thank you all for having an opinion and providing it. This helps in my research for this important subject. This is an attempt to assure you all I am listening to your opinion. I am sure you will fit in there somewhere.
In looking objectively at this full range I am going to rank/classify opinions on this subject in a range of 0 to 10. 0 is completely opposing it and 10 thinking it should be incorporated as a flight maneuver in the PTS. Please no one be offended here it is simply an objective look at the full range of opinions.
Let's start with the 0. These are people who completely oppose doing anything because if we all should fly within our limitations this cannot happen to you. We have all been taught to fly and use judgment/ADM and if we do this we will be OK. In fact, those who spiral in and kill themselves plus a passenger/student deserve what happened because they were not flying within their limitations and intentionally flying recklessly. They should know better. It only happens to the new fast wings. Larger slow wings cannot get into a spiral. Additionally, if it is included in the PTS it will cause more harm than good because unqualified students and pilots will go out and try to practice for the checkride without qualified training and kill themselves in the process. It is an extreme and dangerous maneuver that only accomplished pilots should attempt. There is not any real reason to do anything because there is no hard evidence spirals are a problem or really kill people.
Let's look at the 10. The other side of the story. These are people who think there have been enough deaths already from people spiraling in. The only way to incorporate spiral recovery into the training curriculum is to get it into the PTS so it becomes part of the basic student training, a task for the checkride and something for existing pilots to do for their flight review. All pilots of all trikes are susceptible to getting into spirals through turbulence or looking down at something or any other intentional or unintentional reason. Some simple training for all pilots would save lives. Spiral recovery training is within the limitations of the trike. Every trike pilot should learn this simple/easy recovery that should be experienced/felt and mastered before any pilot solos.
OK there are the two extreme opinions. Completely against and completely for.
From all the comments, many are not in these extremes, but in the middle somewhere. Let's look at a 6. Someone who thinks something should be done but no actual spirals should be performed by anybody. It would just be talked about, same as the tuck/tumble is verbal only.
An 8 would have a CFI demonstrate but not allow the student to practice or any pilot should attempt.
A 3 would realize there are spirals and spiral deaths as a result, but think it could not happen to them because they have a large beginner wing and they always fly within the limitations. Bad turbulence or a distraction cannot happen to them and/or could not cause a spiral.
There is my evaluation as to the range of opinions of adding spiral recovery to the PTS. It would be great if anybody that comments further would self evaluate and give yourself a number from 0 to 10 based on this large range of opinions.
White Eagle, my dear friend, you have overall right. As we talked in OZ, my dear friend had the fatal accident after windshear and his ONLY ONE mistake was, he push the bar... If he released the bar out of his hands, still he will be here... Or if he reacted right...
What Paul is doing is absolutely right and great work for all trike pilots... Im sure, everyone student/pilot/instructor have to know, how can to recover from that non-flying mode.
Speed is your friend. Pull the bar everytime, when you are in non-standard flying situation and next you can solve the problem.
Paul, this is my big support for you. If would you complete a manual for students/pilots/instructors how to avoid spiral dive or how to recover from it, I will be 1st who will to buy it from you. Thanks!
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- Ken@knussear
TrikeCFIKen liked this
Jozinko,
Coming from you that is a huge compliment. I pretty have the training stuff for spiral training listed above plus Larry did a new video I posted here that is another great help. All I have in my training syllabus is spiral recovery check box before solo where the student reads the book theory "Weight Shift Control Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge" of which a have a video summary above. I am just happy if more CFI's teach this to students or to pilots during a flight review.
Best Regards,
Paul Hamilton
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- Ken@knussear
white eagleKen liked this
Well thanks for your reply and it has merit. This is a touchy subject for me cfi as you know Rob was my first instructor. So to be fair to him I can't ever see him getting into a spiral as pic as he was a very competant pilot.
his spiral all happened with a student as pic . But as Rob had used the same little hill to circle around for practicing a student for the Spe I have to suspect that was the case at the accident.unfortunate risk for a cfi as you all know.
Rob knew how to recover from spiral as we had discussed it because I asked him if it was the same tech as in my hangie days. Wierd thing was that rob didnt have the training bars on and I know that was something he would never do.my second instructor Scott was very focused on me flying properly with good energy at critical altitudes.wealso discussed spiral dive recovery. In all my days of flying hang gliders I have never been in a uncontrolled spiral dive nor in triking. But I still don't think i am immune from getting into one just maybe a little insulated by caution.there is always that freak rotor or heli windsheer that can catch you off gaurd. I am not opposed to a pilot learning spiral recovery as it saved my friend henry. I believe that prevention should be a strong focus prior. With Larry's video and I've applauded him as a manufacture for taking the time to put it out there as well.but my concerns are as heather had mentioned that their are many types of trikes and many different conditions that effect spiral dive recovery.Larry's video may not explain it all.For instance my dear friend busy bee whom appeared to me to be a competent pilot but was killed along with his lovely wife in a spiral dive. Now I can only speculate with my imagination but he was flying an arrow wing on I believe his xt trike. I have flown both wing and trike on several occasion. I find the arrow wing with some quirky charactoristics. Airborne doesn't offset there engines for engine torque like say Revo or Tanarg does. Taking the xt off requires a good stab of bar pressure against the tourqe. So can this effect spiral dive recovery and do we want to make test pilots out of students.We also cant exspect students to be blind to the risk of spiral dive recovery.robs student probably had no idea. Like i said i am not opposed intirely to the spiral dive recovery being added. Just more concerned with the who when and how. So i commend you for your seeking others imput and listening to my own thoughts as well as others and likwise yours as well. I hope and pray that we proceed slowly with good judgement and come up with the right answers to make are sport as safe as it can be .Hang glider pilots ,trikers are special people whom only have the beauty and solitude left in airspace to explore and grow.accidents happen and in my spiritual eye I constantly shed my love filled tear to all are friends whom have dropped a feather to what's beyond. I dedicate myself to being a compitent and safe as I can. For gibbo. For bedo For buzzy and many more.
Buzzy Bee and Michelle death stabbed me to the heart. Everytime Im seeing their smily faces...
We must only to teach other pilots, where are flying limits of the wing and how to avoid them. But if you come to non flying mode (by the wind, a turbulence, thermal....) you must to know procedures how you can still be alive. As i understood, Paul wants to give this procedures to manual. Thats great idea! We in Flying Amateur Assotiation of Slovak republic are talking about it minimum once a year. But we havent any rules or manual how to do it. Everyone instructor or inspector told us how he himself did it. Im teaching spiral recovery since 2003, but include it into syllabuses, is great idea.