There is a video (that I have not been able to find...I've tried) where Second Chance (Dunham I believe) was testing the ballistic. It broke the keel and separated...he had a second hand deployed chute that saved him. Big twist-up like the first clip. Anybody have a copy?
Also Bob Thompson, near Tucson and another guy (can't recall) were thermalling in big air. The other guy was inverted and deployed. It opened but the spinning wreckage twisted the bridle and collapsed the chute (was really small on impact). That was the incident that started everyone using spinners on their chute bridles. The guy lived, and Bob soon retired to Flagstaff (he was the most famous "Supine" pilot (not prone) back in the day).
The video with the pilot launching in and out of a wheel barrow was taken at Fort Funston (San Francisco) and was actually not too long ago. He was one of 2 Pilots shot in the parking lot at Fort Funston in 2006 by a deranged man who then killed himself.
Many early gliders were actually very easy to launch and land-- their glide ratios (1:1 = 45°) and ability of the sail surface to flip upside down (billow downward) were not so good, but they were slow and many were VERY docile. This one with the deflexors had a kingpost and luff lines though-- so was a few years newer than the bamboo butterflies.
To me, the wheel barrow video shows tons of refined skill and actually little risk (contrary to a typical nasty & uneducated "Darwin candidate" comment by the eternal darkside "expert" who knows nothing of hang gliders (not here ;)). The winds at Funston, and particularly at the groomed launch area, are extremely predictable and laminar-- the video shows practiced skill and enviable control with virtually zero risk of injury in a mishap- in which case, this particular video of showmanship actually gets a big "Thumbs Up" from me. Additionally, this pilot knows why "Bar all the way Out" is not the best/only way to land- it's one way to land sometimes. Sorry for this interlude, but his memory needed to be defended and it's not the first time the darklord used personal attacks on people who've died in our sports. I'm so glad that AllTrikes prides itself on being good to each other, and good for the sport.
Murphy's rank of master as a hang-glider is the highest awarded within the sport. Friends called Murphy an adventurer who thrilled fellow hang-gliders with stunts and maneuvers that were rarely duplicated.
Daniel Pifko, the president of the Fort Funston Flying Club, says Murphy will be greatly missed.
"Dan Murphy was a real pilot's pilot," Pifko told KCBS. "He did amazing things with anything he flew. He was just a huge resource around Fort Funston."
I saw the "Darwin candidate" comment too. Some of us have done hundreds or thousands of loops, so it's obviously possible to perform them with an an adequate margin... in other words, I'd like to think that our aerobatics are not dangerous if they're properly performed, just like any other phase of flight. If you back yourself to do them well every time and stay inside the limits of the glider, it hardly means you're looking to die. I also believe that as individuals we have not just the right but the responsibility to determine for ourselves the style of flying we choose, and the degree of risk we find acceptable. We may all draw our personal lines differently but we should be defending the rights we all have to determine for ourselves what constitutes acceptable risk.
The 'wheelbarrow' footage made me think fondly of the late Time Travers. We all flew like this back in the seventies, but Tim was the best of us. For some reason I can't attach the video, but if you look on youtube for Tim Travers tribute I'm sure you'll be impressed (he died of an illness).
I still have to recommend that aerobatics be done in aircraft made for it...but am glad guys push the envelope in any and every sport...it helps drives the develpment process.
Thanks Tussock, I can't view the video right now, but you are talking about loops in hang gliders, right? Although no HGMA manufacturer will certify their HGs for loops (aerobatics) they can do them, and in fact have ratified aerobatics championships. Trikes, while superficially similar, are not nearly the same in their abilities or strengths.
Thanks, cburg. And yes, I was thinking more of hang gliding than trikes, but more so about freedom and choices. There's something on the Wills Wing website, if I can find it, along the lines of "we don't sanction aerobatics with our gliders, but we defend your right to do them" that I really liked.
Yeah, HG's are really pretty spectacular machines-- they are purposefully flown into mini-tornadoes (dust-devils, thermals), cloud suck, wave lift, convergence, etc. Almost like the planes they fly into big storms. Hang gliders are built for it, and it feels good to surf the mother nature's energy. I gotta admit, that in a trike it doesn't feel great-- most HG's admit that.
I liken it to a surfboard being perfectly comfortable at the Pipeline or Jaws (in the hands of an expert pilot/surfer of course)- awesome! But throw an outboard motor on the back of a surfboard and you got a sluggish dinghy getting bashed / trapped inside the white water line-- danger !!
Same way with aerobatics for trikes
I've used some of mother nature's energy in my trike with it's 15M wing (thermalled my Tanarg, and used ridge lift to help get up over Mt Whitney) but a trike is a slug in general. Choose your tool. They may look similar, but you use a pairing knife and a machete differently, for different things.
Agree on freedoms-- but don't want people needlessly hurt and sad. I'd guess that more people would get pleasure from watching videos of each tool doing what it does best-- I hate seeing ugly teeth-gritting aerobatics in any aircraft, so if the video poster is looking to maximize people getting a happy thrill, minimize family friends / sport / uninvolved people on the ground getting really bad news and bloody, I'd hope more take that in consideration when making choices. Still want choices for everyone though ... Wanna make sure newbies who see hang gliders doing one thing, don't make erroneous assumptions as to what a trike might be good for too ...
Strangely in the US in Part 103 (Ultralight) many choices of method of flight are legal, while with Lightsport (basically 2-seat) some of these things are actually against the law. For whatever that's worth.
... eh, you know .... we're all mostly on the same page. We don't want anyone getting hurt (physically or emotionally) and we don't want to go to any funerals even though it was the pilot's choice ...
I flew aerobatics ("freestyle") competitively in hang gliders for many years, before trying them in Blanik (all metal, fully stressed sailplane), under instruction. The first thing I was taught was inverted spins, and it was an eye-popper, a staggering introduction to what was possible in an aircraft built to be flown hard... it drummed home the world of difference between "you can JUST get away with a loop in a hang glider if you do it right" and "in an aircraft properly designed for it, the limit of what is possible is set by your skill and imagination".
Comments
Two chutes...neither opened.
That guy was my sailplane instructor. Here is another fun video of Dan...
Bowsprits and Deflexors...the good old days ;-)
There is a video (that I have not been able to find...I've tried) where Second Chance (Dunham I believe) was testing the ballistic. It broke the keel and separated...he had a second hand deployed chute that saved him. Big twist-up like the first clip. Anybody have a copy?
Also Bob Thompson, near Tucson and another guy (can't recall) were thermalling in big air. The other guy was inverted and deployed. It opened but the spinning wreckage twisted the bridle and collapsed the chute (was really small on impact). That was the incident that started everyone using spinners on their chute bridles. The guy lived, and Bob soon retired to Flagstaff (he was the most famous "Supine" pilot (not prone) back in the day).
http://www.gccaz.edu/appliedscience/jrtweb/jrtbckgrnd.html
http://www.gccaz.edu/appliedscience/jrtweb/images/Grand%20Canyon01.JPG
http://www.gccaz.edu/appliedscience/jrtweb/jrtglider.html
The video with the pilot launching in and out of a wheel barrow was taken at Fort Funston (San Francisco) and was actually not too long ago. He was one of 2 Pilots shot in the parking lot at Fort Funston in 2006 by a deranged man who then killed himself.
http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=168&start=0
Many early gliders were actually very easy to launch and land-- their glide ratios (1:1 = 45°) and ability of the sail surface to flip upside down (billow downward) were not so good, but they were slow and many were VERY docile. This one with the deflexors had a kingpost and luff lines though-- so was a few years newer than the bamboo butterflies.
To me, the wheel barrow video shows tons of refined skill and actually little risk (contrary to a typical nasty & uneducated "Darwin candidate" comment by the eternal darkside "expert" who knows nothing of hang gliders (not here ;)). The winds at Funston, and particularly at the groomed launch area, are extremely predictable and laminar-- the video shows practiced skill and enviable control with virtually zero risk of injury in a mishap- in which case, this particular video of showmanship actually gets a big "Thumbs Up" from me. Additionally, this pilot knows why "Bar all the way Out" is not the best/only way to land- it's one way to land sometimes. Sorry for this interlude, but his memory needed to be defended and it's not the first time the darklord used personal attacks on people who've died in our sports. I'm so glad that AllTrikes prides itself on being good to each other, and good for the sport.
Murphy's rank of master as a hang-glider is the highest awarded within the sport. Friends called Murphy an adventurer who thrilled fellow hang-gliders with stunts and maneuvers that were rarely duplicated.
Daniel Pifko, the president of the Fort Funston Flying Club, says Murphy will be greatly missed.
"Dan Murphy was a real pilot's pilot," Pifko told KCBS. "He did amazing things with anything he flew. He was just a huge resource around Fort Funston."
I saw the "Darwin candidate" comment too. Some of us have done hundreds or thousands of loops, so it's obviously possible to perform them with an an adequate margin... in other words, I'd like to think that our aerobatics are not dangerous if they're properly performed, just like any other phase of flight. If you back yourself to do them well every time and stay inside the limits of the glider, it hardly means you're looking to die. I also believe that as individuals we have not just the right but the responsibility to determine for ourselves the style of flying we choose, and the degree of risk we find acceptable. We may all draw our personal lines differently but we should be defending the rights we all have to determine for ourselves what constitutes acceptable risk.
The 'wheelbarrow' footage made me think fondly of the late Time Travers. We all flew like this back in the seventies, but Tim was the best of us. For some reason I can't attach the video, but if you look on youtube for Tim Travers tribute I'm sure you'll be impressed (he died of an illness).
Thanks Tussock, great tribute.
I still have to recommend that aerobatics be done in aircraft made for it...but am glad guys push the envelope in any and every sport...it helps drives the develpment process.
Thanks Tussock, I can't view the video right now, but you are talking about loops in hang gliders, right? Although no HGMA manufacturer will certify their HGs for loops (aerobatics) they can do them, and in fact have ratified aerobatics championships. Trikes, while superficially similar, are not nearly the same in their abilities or strengths.
Thanks, cburg. And yes, I was thinking more of hang gliding than trikes, but more so about freedom and choices. There's something on the Wills Wing website, if I can find it, along the lines of "we don't sanction aerobatics with our gliders, but we defend your right to do them" that I really liked.
http://www.willswing.com/Articles/Article.asp?reqArticleName=aerobatics.
(Last page).
Yeah, HG's are really pretty spectacular machines-- they are purposefully flown into mini-tornadoes (dust-devils, thermals), cloud suck, wave lift, convergence, etc. Almost like the planes they fly into big storms. Hang gliders are built for it, and it feels good to surf the mother nature's energy. I gotta admit, that in a trike it doesn't feel great-- most HG's admit that.
I liken it to a surfboard being perfectly comfortable at the Pipeline or Jaws (in the hands of an expert pilot/surfer of course)- awesome! But throw an outboard motor on the back of a surfboard and you got a sluggish dinghy getting bashed / trapped inside the white water line-- danger !!
Same way with aerobatics for trikes
I've used some of mother nature's energy in my trike with it's 15M wing (thermalled my Tanarg, and used ridge lift to help get up over Mt Whitney) but a trike is a slug in general. Choose your tool. They may look similar, but you use a pairing knife and a machete differently, for different things.
Agree on freedoms-- but don't want people needlessly hurt and sad. I'd guess that more people would get pleasure from watching videos of each tool doing what it does best-- I hate seeing ugly teeth-gritting aerobatics in any aircraft, so if the video poster is looking to maximize people getting a happy thrill, minimize family friends / sport / uninvolved people on the ground getting really bad news and bloody, I'd hope more take that in consideration when making choices. Still want choices for everyone though ... Wanna make sure newbies who see hang gliders doing one thing, don't make erroneous assumptions as to what a trike might be good for too ...
Strangely in the US in Part 103 (Ultralight) many choices of method of flight are legal, while with Lightsport (basically 2-seat) some of these things are actually against the law. For whatever that's worth.
... eh, you know .... we're all mostly on the same page. We don't want anyone getting hurt (physically or emotionally) and we don't want to go to any funerals even though it was the pilot's choice ...