So here is a 15 meter 50mph trim, 50hp 1989 technology trike and it wangs and loops to beat hell? Now we have 100hp 11 meter strutted, 100 mph trim speed trikes and it's not safe to fly past 30 up/down pitch or more than 60 in bank and better be careful because you can exceed your vne in level flight!
Last I heard this pilot was still flying trikes. so much for Darwin?
Personally I think in the old days we relied on pilot skill to remain safe and these days many a pilot relies on current engine tech for their safety. Different generations and flying backgrounds I would guess, Spam can or wang diver pilot?
No offence to any pilot, what or however you choose to fly, but is this considered dangerous because it really does take a skilled pilot? and/or so if Flying low over unrecoverable terrain is something anyone with basic skills can do so it is considered safe? Both make great video! Both are invigorating and fun.
Yes, you are right. But you must have take to attention that his trike is very light. It weight about 65kg with the air cooled Rotax engine and 20 liters tank. The wing, as you wrote, flew 65mph max. A present trikes are too heavy. The engine has a 90kg only... plus fairing, radio, gps, instruments and more other "necessary" toys... The wings can fly more faster, then centrifugal forces are rapidly growing. With a heavy trike + heavy pilot and :) a heavy passenger, it can be dangerous. Why? Because the video pilot have as same main bolt as modern trikes has = diameter 10mm.
Yes, I remember, we flew to max 100m (300ft) high because higher was OMG too high!!! My instruments was engines RPM, old compasss and watches. We used very simple and light engines as Trabant, Citroen C2V. Our wings was modified HG wings. Slow and low. I havent a BRS. 1- Its too expensive for me, 2- I do my flight safely - every time I looking for a places, where I can to land when I need and I dont flying when a weather dont like me
Bill there was a time me looping a wing (HG) increased its intrinsic value. With trikes before them POH things were applied to our craft all we had was direct knowledge or what someone said as to what a thing was able to do. Or by testing the limits ourselves and proving any theories we had faith in. Sometimes that was a lot and sometimes not. As far used wings go your theory is why some always buy new over used. I don't know if he over? stressed anything or not. In trikes I worry more about road sign damage to a leading edge with used trike wings?
Jozinko, That was my thinking too. Maybe the light and simple really has something going for it. Or maybe my experience is limited to the lighter side of triking. Could be one day it will change but I have been in this comfort zone of lighter trikes for over 30 years.
My headstone will read "pilot error: WEATHER RELATED". My area is mountains with fast moving weather at times, gust fronts and squalls sometimes not visible until they are on you. Off in the distance is a dark cloud and next you look the sky goes all the way to the ground. Time to Land.
Great points!! There seems to be a push for heavy trikes and loss of skills (super tiny wings so turbulence doesn't scare 'em). It takes perfection of skills to loop a trike-- doing so might then kill our best pilots and likely kill pilots who aren't as skilled but encouraged to try it. DON'T DO IT! JUST DON'T. I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It's not good for the sport- whether you come out of it OK, and especially if you blow it.
That is a really excellent point Wang 1, it does not take much skill to fly low over bad terrain, yet is nearly as dangerous. I hand't really thought of it that way I'm really glad you also brought up the point of how maneuverable light trikes are-- agile!! Some in the sport are being mesmerized into a faster, faster, heavier heavier more expensive direction. What is the ultimate end point, rocket engine and tiny fins for a wing??? It is totally not a trike anymore-- doesn't even fly like one, all the cool features of a trike, the bird-like capabilities, etc are lost and for what ??? A Cessna 152 is still faster than the fastest trikes !!! Just doesn't make sense to push that direction taking everything that is awesome about trikes away for limited gains that are far surpassed by the most basic of other aircraft.'
Yes, I fly a big trike, but I also fly a relatively big wing and still use it to soar and climb huge heights, and it still retains the capability of low & slow. I'll get a light trike (again) as soon as a good electric comes on the market.
I do appreciate the technology advances, but I just think the sport is being driven the wrong direction. Newbies are losing sight of the history and magic of HG and light triking. People often say these days, "I have an XX (cool maneuverable off road trike), I mean I know it's not a YY (heavy fast expensive flashy trike) ..." And I ask them if they'd want to take a Goldwing to the Baja 1000 ...? Be proud of your trike and what it can do and work to develop the skills to fly it like a bird- Jonathon Livingston Seagul lives on !!
Comments
So here is a 15 meter 50mph trim, 50hp 1989 technology trike and it wangs and loops to beat hell? Now we have 100hp 11 meter strutted, 100 mph trim speed trikes and it's not safe to fly past 30 up/down pitch or more than 60 in bank and better be careful because you can exceed your vne in level flight!
Last I heard this pilot was still flying trikes. so much for Darwin?
Personally I think in the old days we relied on pilot skill to remain safe and these days many a pilot relies on current engine tech for their safety. Different generations and flying backgrounds I would guess, Spam can or wang diver pilot?
No offence to any pilot, what or however you choose to fly, but is this considered dangerous because it really does take a skilled pilot? and/or so if Flying low over unrecoverable terrain is something anyone with basic skills can do so it is considered safe? Both make great video! Both are invigorating and fun.
Yes, you are right. But you must have take to attention that his trike is very light. It weight about 65kg with the air cooled Rotax engine and 20 liters tank. The wing, as you wrote, flew 65mph max. A present trikes are too heavy. The engine has a 90kg only... plus fairing, radio, gps, instruments and more other "necessary" toys... The wings can fly more faster, then centrifugal forces are rapidly growing. With a heavy trike + heavy pilot and :) a heavy passenger, it can be dangerous. Why? Because the video pilot have as same main bolt as modern trikes has = diameter 10mm.
Yes, I remember, we flew to max 100m (300ft) high because higher was OMG too high!!! My instruments was engines RPM, old compasss and watches. We used very simple and light engines as Trabant, Citroen C2V. Our wings was modified HG wings. Slow and low. I havent a BRS. 1- Its too expensive for me, 2- I do my flight safely - every time I looking for a places, where I can to land when I need and I dont flying when a weather dont like me
No, I think it is considered unsafe because the POH for that aircraft says "don't do those things".
He may be still alive and flying, but is the next owner of that aircraft? Did he note that the wing had been stressed like that in the aircraft log?
Bill there was a time me looping a wing (HG) increased its intrinsic value. With trikes before them POH things were applied to our craft all we had was direct knowledge or what someone said as to what a thing was able to do. Or by testing the limits ourselves and proving any theories we had faith in. Sometimes that was a lot and sometimes not. As far used wings go your theory is why some always buy new over used. I don't know if he over? stressed anything or not. In trikes I worry more about road sign damage to a leading edge with used trike wings?
Jozinko, That was my thinking too. Maybe the light and simple really has something going for it. Or maybe my experience is limited to the lighter side of triking. Could be one day it will change but I have been in this comfort zone of lighter trikes for over 30 years.
My headstone will read "pilot error: WEATHER RELATED". My area is mountains with fast moving weather at times, gust fronts and squalls sometimes not visible until they are on you. Off in the distance is a dark cloud and next you look the sky goes all the way to the ground. Time to Land.
Great points!! There seems to be a push for heavy trikes and loss of skills (super tiny wings so turbulence doesn't scare 'em). It takes perfection of skills to loop a trike-- doing so might then kill our best pilots and likely kill pilots who aren't as skilled but encouraged to try it. DON'T DO IT! JUST DON'T. I DON'T WANT TO SEE IT. It's not good for the sport- whether you come out of it OK, and especially if you blow it.
That is a really excellent point Wang 1, it does not take much skill to fly low over bad terrain, yet is nearly as dangerous. I hand't really thought of it that way I'm really glad you also brought up the point of how maneuverable light trikes are-- agile!! Some in the sport are being mesmerized into a faster, faster, heavier heavier more expensive direction. What is the ultimate end point, rocket engine and tiny fins for a wing??? It is totally not a trike anymore-- doesn't even fly like one, all the cool features of a trike, the bird-like capabilities, etc are lost and for what ??? A Cessna 152 is still faster than the fastest trikes !!! Just doesn't make sense to push that direction taking everything that is awesome about trikes away for limited gains that are far surpassed by the most basic of other aircraft.'
Yes, I fly a big trike, but I also fly a relatively big wing and still use it to soar and climb huge heights, and it still retains the capability of low & slow. I'll get a light trike (again) as soon as a good electric comes on the market.
I do appreciate the technology advances, but I just think the sport is being driven the wrong direction. Newbies are losing sight of the history and magic of HG and light triking. People often say these days, "I have an XX (cool maneuverable off road trike), I mean I know it's not a YY (heavy fast expensive flashy trike) ..." And I ask them if they'd want to take a Goldwing to the Baja 1000 ...? Be proud of your trike and what it can do and work to develop the skills to fly it like a bird- Jonathon Livingston Seagul lives on !!